GT5 activities and Planning J.Favier, D.Autiero Lyon, 20/9/2005.

Présentation au sujet: "GT5 activities and Planning J.Favier, D.Autiero Lyon, 20/9/2005."— Transcription de la présentation:

1 GT5 activities and Planning J.Favier, D.Autiero Lyon, 20/9/2005

2 Program of the Working Group 5 (Common Tools) This working group has the goal to organize the exchange of information, sharing, comparison, benchmarking and development of the tools used for the calculations needed for the common physics discussion within the neutrino GDR. A first action consists in the inventory of the tools already available in the community of the GDR (and outside) in order to organize their sharing and integration. It will be promoted the sharing of the past experience of the participants in the use and developments of dedicated tools, up to now not yet standardized and publicly available in the global neutrino community, like in particular: a) simulations of environmental radioactivity and cosmic ray fluxes in underground laboratories b) simulations of solar and atmospheric neutrino fluxes c) neutrino beams simulations d) neutrino events generators On this purpose the collection of information from the participants was started at the end of March with an e-mail inquiry. An e-mail forum (with archiving) for the exchange of experience on the use of the new tools is being organized as well as a common repository of the software.

3 A general list of topics which can be of interest of the WG5 is the following: 1) Phenomenology tools. The GLOBES software is a complete framework for the simulation of 3 flavours neutrino oscillations[1]. We believe that this software will be an ideal environment to organize and structure the common analysis in the GDR and discussion on the perspectives. It will allow to easily cross-check the results and the assumptions taken by various people. This kind of analyses in the past were relying mainly on private self-made codes which less transparent and more difficult to cross- check. This work will be done in strict collaboration with the Working Group 1 which will discuss the perspectives for the future and compare various experimental options. The forum will allow for an easy exchange of information and experience among all the participants of the GDR who are starting to learn and use this code.[1] 2) Use of particles transport codes for the simulation of detector response and neutrino beams. Critical comparison of the physics performance of the major codes existing on the market Geant, Fluka, Mars. Sharing of the ad hoc improvements and corrections of the codes in particular at low energy and for the transport of neutrons. 3) Simulations of the environmental radioactivity and cosmic ray fluxes. Most of the simulations developed by the past underground experiments at low radioactivity are not available publicly. This field is of common interest for the next generation of underground neutrino experiments and experiments at low background like the ones looking for dark matter. 4) Sharing of the already existing detector simulations which will be relevant for the next generation of experiments, like Water- Cerenkov experiments of Lar experiments. 5) Codes for the simulation of atmospheric and solar neutrino fluxes. Also in this case the existing simulations which are the results of many years of experience are not easily available to the community and the correct use of these fluxes is a key ingredient in the phenomenological analysis needed to study the perspectives in neutrino physics. [1][1] It includes the simulation of matter effects and it can take into account properly the experimental resolutions and backgrounds. GLOBES is at the base of the neutrino phenomenology works published by the group of M. Lindner. The software is powerful, well organized, easy to use. The sources are publicly available. Normally the simulations are performed by running scripts (Abstract Experiments Definition Language), many examples of these scripts are available for most of the relevant experimental set-ups. The libraries are also callable from external programs.

4 6) Beam simulation programs. A lot of developments are ongoing for the simulation of future neutrino beams. These studies (e.g. super-beams) are often strictly related linked to the correct simulation of particles production and transport. This is also an important ingredient in the comparison of the performance of future experimental options. 7) Neutrino event generators and simulation of nuclear effects. This is an important aspect in particular for the simulation of interactions at low energy beams, for instance in the two detectors strategy for T2K. Since this general program represents a huge amount of work we will propose and discuss at the next meeting with the interested people what can be a list of restricted objectives for the next twelve months. Dario Autiero and Jean Favier

5 Declared interests and possible/active contributions of the WG5 collaborators : J. Argyriades CEA: GLOBES D. Autiero IPNL : GLOBES, neutrino interactions generators J.E. Campagne LAL: G4 and Fluka * C. Cerna CPPM, Fluka: simulation of neutrino beams (SPL), GLOBES L.Chaussard IPNL: G4 J. Damet LAPP : GLOBES J. Favier LAPP:atmospheric neutrino fluxes, water Cerenkov detector simulation * F. Mauger, D.Durand: G4 simulations, modelling of muon fluxes underground, production of neutrons due to muon interactions and their interactions in the experimental setup * D. Vignaud APC: Tools for solar neutrino fluxes and MSW effect calculations in the sun and earth * J.Marteau IPNL Neutrino interactions cross sections L.Mosca CEA ILIAS database J.Busto CPPM High energy cosmic neutrino sources *

6 Mailing list: Up to now 13 subscribers, not very active so far, about 10 messages exchanged, should be used more for the exchange of informations and experience in the use of the tools WEB page: We have to set it up to organize all the links to the informations collected so far

7 Modélisation des sources, spectres, normalisation, control Neutrinos du soleil: état des lieux Neutrinos atmosphériques: les modèles Neutrinos réacteurs: quoi de neuf? Neutrinos accélérateurs: spectre d’énergie= f(Ep,cible,focalisation,angle « off-axis »,etc) Neutrinos beta-beams Neutrinos H.E cosmiques, s-novae, etc… Neutrinos de la radioactivite…..

8 Caverne: flux naturels Radioactivité: murs, roche, matériaux, radon, comparaison Gran-Sasso/Frejus/autres Flux des muons cosmiques (montagne-dépendant), distributions angulaires et énergie (ex: MACRO,OPERA) Flux de neutrons de multiples origines, en particulier produits par les muons cosmiques

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10 Propagation dans la matière G4, (G3), Fluka, Mars, etc…bilan des comparaisons ( Jean Eric Campagne ?) Interaction des muons dans la roche: production des neutrons Propagation des neutrons de basse énergie Simulation des faisceaux Propagation à très haute énergie (temps/evt, simplifications,etc) ??? Effets MSW ( D.Vignaud)

11 Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 09:38:31 +0200 From: Jose Busto To: Marcos Dracos, volpe@ipno.in2p3.fr, favier@lapp.in2p3.fr Subject: Neutrinos Haute energie Bonjour, Malhereusement hier j'ai du partir avant la fin de la seance pour prendre mon train de retour a Marseille. Je pense que faire une liste de toutes les source de neutrinos et bruitsde fond associes a haute et basse energie est un trabail tres utils pour toute la communote. En ce qui concerle la realisation d'une etude des neutrinos de haute enregie, meme s'il semblent ne pas cadrer totalement dans le GDR neutrino, je pense qu'il faut la faire, meme si ce n'est que par une question de complementarite. Je suis donc pret a effectuer cet etude des toutes les sources connues de production de neutrinos cosmiques haute et tres haute energie et le completer avec un travail concernant la maniere dans laquelle ces neutrinos peuvent contribuer a l'etude des proprietes du neutrino ou d'une maniere plus generale comment il contribuent en physique fondamentale. Si vous etes d'accord avec cette idee je commencerai. petit a petit la faire avancer. Cordialement Presentation at GT2

12 Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:35:59 +0200 From: F.Mauger To: Dario Autiero Cc: Dominique Durand, mauger Francois Subject: Re: Test Hi Dario Corinne Augier (LAL) will talk about NEMO 3 results and the SuperNEMO project at the group 1 session. …. As a SuperNEMO simulation developper, I'd like to use mainly a G4-based program even for muon and neutron physics (one of your topics under study to decide an underground place to run such a large experiment). At least, we will need convenient (validated and documented) interfaces between other softwares and G4. So summary, we are interested in: 1 - modeling of the muons flux at the LSM, LNGS and any other candidate laboratory 2 - neutrons induced by these muons 3 - neutron physics inside the experimental setup (captures...) I think that other points are under control within G4 (100 keV-10MeV e/gamma physics). With best regards frc

13 Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 19:29:12 +0200 From: Daniel Vignaud To: 'Jean FAVIER' Cc: autiero@ipnl.in2p3.fr Subject: RE : Groupe 5 GDR Jean et Dario, Excellente idée de répertorier les outils qui pourraient être mis en commun. La difficulté est souvent de rendre conviviaux et utilisables par d'autres des outils développés "à usage personnel". Je dispose de vieilles choses (non utilisables en l'état) : a) flux des neutrinos solaires; b) calcul "numérique" de l'effet MSW dans le Soleil et la Terre. Je ne suis certainement pas le seul à avoir ces outils. Il me semble en particulier que des calculs de l'effet de la matière sur les neutrinos devraient être accessibles sous une forme "moderne", un peu comme une "fonction" (désolé, je parle en fortran). Ca pourrait faire l'objet d'une discussion à une prochaine réunion : quels sont les besoins dans ce contexte, s'ils ne sont pas déjà couverts par un développement fait par un thésard ou un postdoc quelque part.

14 Bonjour Cristina et Jean, Voici, comme convenu, un fichier et une adresse Web au sujet des mesures de radioactivité dans ILIAS. Avec mes amitiés, Luigi Adresse Web : http://www-lsm.in2p3.fr/ilias/database.htmlhttp://www-lsm.in2p3.fr/ilias/database.html ILIAS database of radioactive contaminations in materials

15 Dedicated presentation in a next meeting ?

16 Neutrino interactions: Next meetings: Database of cross sections Follow results at Nuint05 Presentation on Genie (see J.Favier talk in June). I had a look at the code and it is still at the state of many empty boxes with the one not empty still at a very basic level.

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18 http://www1.physik.tu-muenchen.de/~globes/

19 Globes: First presentation D.A. (GDR Marseille) People identified using the program up to now in GT5 (incomplete list): J. Argyriades D. Autiero C. Cerna J. Damet Interest from GT2, joint program with GT1for the comparison of the experimental programmes… Today discussion Exchange of experience in using the program (meetings, GT5 forum, direct collaboration with the authors for status and perspectives of the program and how to integrate our work with the one of Globe’s group Invitation to Lindner for the plenary meeting in order to make a review and establish a direct contact between us the his group

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21 Fluka used for hadron production in the beam simulation for the NOMAD experiment (numu->nue oscillation search) (similar agreements for antineutrino mode and zero focussing mode) Fluka currently used in the CNGS beam simulations Fundamental topic: past experience in the neutrino beam simulations and problematics in low energy beams simulations Alfredo Ferrari invited for a critical review at the next meeting

22 Some useful informations have already been collected, must be organized in a more accessible way through the WEB page We are confident to hear more from the people who declared their working interests in the next meetings For the plenary meeting we have scheduled some important external contributions to shake people on hot points